I am joining a team of people spanning many generations (meaning there are young people and not so young!) to the Kimberley Region of WA - Halls Creek specifically in the Sept/Oct School holidays. BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE - I am wanting people to join me in a missional discipleship course, just one night a week in the 6 weeks prior and post the trip to Halls Creek. This course is explained well here. And starts mid August. More on the journey here. It will be a life changing experience, but places are limited!
I have 2 posts in my head, both are completely different topics, but interestingly enough they are titled the same "To Pay or Not to Pay".
Post #1
I have read posts about this in the past, even chapters in books about this, but now it's my issue, so I share it with you.
I have a deep down discomfort with local church pastors being paid! I know that sounds like some off the shelf crazy man statement but every time I sit and ponder the issues surrounding pastors being paid I struggle with something inside.
Every time we pay for anything we have raised expectation of that person product or experience. If I don't pay and I don't get, I shrug and walk away. If I pay and I don't get I have something to say about it. Or if I get less than what I desired or expected I am disappointed and go 'pay' elsewhere to get a better 'product'.
Now before you bight my head off and quote scripture at me, I am aware of people being paid for ministry services in the bible. Paul often talked about receiving gifts and offerings. Interestingly enough though, Paul never received money from the people he ministered to WHILE he was ministering to them, and Paul was not a paid local church pastor. (not sure I see many of them in the bible!) Paul was a missionary, a church planter, in the bible sense of church planting, not our modern style of planting pastors and congregations etc. (Not making comments/judgments here, just observation).
So, let me personalize this. I have had this idea of a community chaplain, run under the auspices of Scripture Union. It's like a school chaplain but the boundaries are just a bit wider, suburban if you like. The idea is like a missionary to the suburb, but the job description looks like what any Christ follower could/should do - just on steroids, that is - committing more time and under a more formal set up...rewind the conversation back to the paragraphs above... could not the same be said of a local church pastor? This role is just what any member of the church should/could do depending on gifting etc only a paid church pastor/minister just commits more of his/her time to the role.
So the ideal - we all minister together not needing to pay someone (and getting all those nasty expectation issues listed above!). In the organised church, we keep it smaller and more personable, easily accountable and lean on one another for the sharing of gifts and resources, natural leaders will gently lead guide, facilitate, gifted carers will care, teachers will teach and so on. No need to PAY someone, no need to PAY rent, mortgage and so on. Just put money where it's most needed.
In the community, no need to pay chaplains, just make sure there are committed missionary people in the right places. discipled in such a way (little ad there) that they know what it means to live a missional existence in their place of residence. Believing teachers in schools would be the Christ light in those places, no need for chaplains being paid, all because we are missional disciples where we are at, in schools, work places - everywhere. (my brother was a good example of this is his job at Challenge Stadium. No doubt he is still now, but we chatted lots about his role as a kind of chaplain to the staff even though he was the HR guy.
So - All too ideal hey!! Sure I admit it. In fact I am guessing that most people in ministry reading the above would say, "I agree mostly. The picture you painted is the ideal and if that happened it would be great, only it does not happen, so paid workers are needed or nothing would happen"
Maybe the reason it does not happen is BECAUSE of the paid workers. The very people we pay to make disciples, to run the church could be the very reason we never get close to the ideal.
China, and early church are examples in which we have never seen such rapid growth iinthe church and in both examples paid workers were not to be seen, at least not to the scale we see it in the west.
So, with a passion to work a day or 2 a week as a community chaplain or even for some great branch of a group like Scripture Union doing, whatever how do I justify asking people to help me raise money to get paid to do the very things I was people I am working with to do for nothing? Wont they think, "You do it, why should I? I go to work at the school, I'm not going to reach out to my street, I pay you to do that!" Or they might think, "Are you standing here having a beer with me, or a BBQ or helping me with my garden because you are paid or because that's just what we do as community?"
In the mean time I have to get back to my paid ministry job :) Aghh I have to eat.
Hamo had this clip from GIA on his blog. I have watched these guys for some time and love what they have to offer. I have their DVD of many clips from all over the world, it is a sweet piece of work, here is just one of their clips. Hop over and check out what Hamo and friends have had to say.
Sadly I have nothing but sad looking powerpoints and slide shows to give you from GMP where I have been working for a year :(
Well, it's been been a while since I seriously blogged anything. I have had a crazy month. I am working for GMP the Churches of Christ missions group for 2 days a week. This group is trying to go through major change and restructure. As to the success of this change or even if the group embrace the full picture the suggestions entail we will wait and see. I went to Adelaide (Head office) for some meetings over the weekend of 14 - 16 Sept. It was short and sweet.
I had a week at home before a quick wedding rehearsal on the Saturday and flew out to Sydney on the Sunday to spend a few hours at the ACOM retreat en-route to Queensland for National Youth Ministry Convention. I flew with Mark O'Brien of Lowercase fame. We chatted extensively about the 'biblocentricity' (love that word? I think I just made it up...not sure) of our Joondalup thing. A conversation coming out of a long discussion on his blog. I came to a couple of conclusions; 1) What we are doing is different and challenges some of the 'come and see' models of church. We are a church that is low on 'event' and high on 'just live it out'. If you hang out with our crew, intersect with out group's web of relationships, you have 'come to our church'. 2) What we are doing does indeed lack some sense of biblical missional/evangelical type drive that seems to be present in the New Testament from my (and Mark's reading). It also lacks, as I have always felt, a common set of beliefs.
Anyway, we chatted lots, not just about that, but lots of stuff, all the way to Stanwell Park in the south of Sydney. Caught up with Neale Meredith that night and all the ACOM crew the next morning before heading back to the airport for a 3pm flight to Coolangatta.
I checked into my flash hotel (Watermark) right on the Gold Coast, managed to wangle a free room for the week! Nothing like saving money for Youth Vision! The next day was an all elective day at conference. I elected to have the day to chill. I was a bit peopled out and needed time to me. (A new thing I am finding I value a lot!) But with people flying in from all over the place I found myself spending the best part of the day catching up with people. By about 3pm I realized I was getting rude, argumentative and sarcastic so took myself to my room for a couple of hours reading and rest - getting old I think :)
We had dinner on the beach with most of the WA crew that night, nice.
Wednesday saw the start of the NYMC proper. Tim Hawkins jumped in as main speaker #1. He is probably Australia's premier youth pastor. Brenton Killeen and I had the privilege of being MCs at the conference so we had the chance to banter a bit with the speakers and get to know them a little, this was great stuff. Duffy Robins spoke that evening and Tony Campolo the next day morning and night. I lead an open space technology session on Thursday on youth ministry issues which was fun.
Friday I headed to the Sunshine Coast for the day and evening with Gary, a great mate. He and I have become friends through working with ACOM together, but as our lives (our ACOM lives) have gone separate ways, we have retained some contact, mainly through blogging really. We have some differences of belief and understanding about who God is and the way he works, and we have some deep similarities about the way we think about the earth, family, peace and lifestyle...and red wine, Guinness and cigars! I enjoyed a relaxing day with Gary and his amazing family, Catherine, Christopher and Tamara Gary's great wife. I got on particularly well with Christopher their 11 year old, he and I have some common interests; 4WD videos, the bush, naughty jokes, and identifying cars a long way off!! He is a champ! Gary has a great little electric scooter, it only does about 60km/h and only travels about 50km before needing a recharge but is great for around their area, just ducking to the shops etc. It is completely silent but for the wheels on the road, felt odd! Sadly I said goodbye and headed to the airport after a great night's sleep in their guest house in the forest.
A long day traveling took me, 2 hours on a freeway, 2 hours to Melbourne, 3 hours to Perth and finally in my own bed!
Sun 30th Sept is Animal Sunday according to the new insert into the traditional church calendar "A Season of Creation". So we celebrated this day as a church out at Landsdale Farm. We explored what, at the farm, stood out and made us this of God the Creator. It was a great sitting together on the lawn surrounded by goats, sheep, horses, pigs and rabbits discussing our creator.
I did a wedding in the afternoon...a 15 minute service, almost my shortest on record...one I did was 11 minutes long!! Hey, there is only so much you can add to a wedding in which the couple don't want too much at all!
The next day was a public holiday, our whole extended family went to Super Golf in the Swan Valley and then for a picnic lunch. A great day was had by all, Super Golf is worth the effort.
Tuesday2 Oct saw me back up in Lesmurdie for another day of "Life Skills" with Roger tan and the Churches of Christ crew, not bad stuff, good PD.
Trip to Northam Thursday for a meeting about an outreach we are doing their next year. We met in the old hospital which is slowly being transformed into a conference centre of sorts...long road ahead!!
I took the kids south with me on Saturday for some work meetings; Sunday - preached at Busselton Church of Christ, good crew there. I caught up with Greg, who thinks a bit like me in terms of Church. He has done some Forge units and indicated maybe I would be a good fit for the Senior Pastor's job going there... hmmm I love the church, Greg seems great, we do think a like, I would love to go country one day, but for now I think we are where God wants us. I do often wonder how I would fit into an 'normal' church these days. I entertain the thought from time to time! I caught up with some of their new youth leadership team, a great bunch of young adults willing to make something happen for their High School Youth Min. I think something great could happen there!
Sunday night dinner with Dave Cohen from Dunsborough along with Gavin R my long time mate. Gav is a Dr in Busso, Dave the Pastor at one of the Dunsborough Churches. Great night of chatting until the kids were ready to move, could have talked all night with these guys...Gav and I eventually did!!
Monday morning saw us driving further south to catch up with the Youth guys from Rivers Church (the CofC in Margaret River) Steve and Jaylene live right down towards Augusta on a big eucalypt plantation. He is a timber mill dude...no I did not set up a Gunns Pulp mill protest sign at his front door :) They have just built THE most amazing house on the bank of the Blackwood river. He has done the rammed earth himself as well as most of the timber...in fact it has almost been all done by Steve. These guys are great and are doing brilliant work with young people in and around the South West.
On to Bridgetown...a big contrast to our Rivers Church (pentecostal)!! Bridgetown is typical of most small country churches. We met in the pastors house, a very traditional looking country conservative pastors house with morning tea laid out on the table in the dining room and all the chairs set in a circle ready for our meeting of key members of the church to discuss youth and children's issues in the church and town. They were a really wonderful bunch of people with a passion God and for their town, a stunning town I could really live in, seriously this place is a picture.
The kids and I camped out next to a beautiful lake not far from the little town of Franklin. Nice break in the rain for our camp, even when it did rain we had a picnic shelter under which we pitched the tent and swag.
Tuesday saw an early visit to the Mt Barker bakery to pick up a nice bun before dropping in to visit Paul and Deb Ritchie. Deb was a 'Michaels', a kind of relative of mine in a round about way! These guys are ministering to youth in Mt barker, they are part of the Baptist Church...but, hey, I'm not fussy about who I coach :) We chatted extensively about ACOM study, Forge, missional living, Christian community and other stuff...if I told you I would have to kill you :) These guys are champs, seriously they have a house full of kids on Wednesdays after school for homework club, fun, games and dinner, they deserve a medal!
After almost a half a day at their house me and the kids drove to the Stirling Ranges, my favorite spot in the world...ok Tasmania is but the Stirls comes in close. With so much rain around we took a cabin...cheats!!
We headed up to a cloud covered Bluff Knoll first thing the next morning the kids did brilliant, they climbed all the way to the top with no complaints.
Even Amy after falling and giving her knee a big whack got up and made it to the top and back. Girls going to wee in the bush is not an issue I have experience in! I found myself pondering ways in which to invent some pipe system in which to simulate the same 'system' boys have...ok, I didn't spend a long time thinking about this, but seriously, there has to be a better way girls!
On top of Bluff, we did not see much at all, the cloud was too thick, but the buzz of being on the top was brilliant.
I took some video on my phone, see below. The girls made lots of crazy video once they discovered how to use the phone video thing, see here.
We headed home in time for Church last night, a great few days of combined ministry/life/family/work/play/recreation/mission/whatever you call it...it was fun!
I wanted to put heaps on here about the brilliant Forge intensive this past weekend. But my computer, or home internet connection has gone soooo slow that it is puttingme off using the computer at all! So have a look here at Hamo's thoughts, with a link or two to speakers blogs etc. It really was one of the best intensives I have been to.
The audio was recorded 'on site' with my phone, song one is Pieak on guitar, a song he wrote. Song two was the kids singing along to Rowan...also recorded on my phone...not great sound...BUT REAL!! (The last song sounds a lot like a famous Aussie female singer, but without copyright, surely it couldn't be who you think it is!)
6 of us from 2 churches in Perth spent 11 days in Cambodia consisting of three predominant visits. (Photo Show Here.)
1. Helping out with the work of Hagar International. As you can see from the post below, they have recently taken ownership of a massive factory from Nestle. It is worth in excess of US2.2 mill. It has forklift, all milk production equipment for their soya project and heaps of floor space for all their craft and design programmes.
Hagar Design products are sold through retail channels in America, Europe and Asia-Pacific as well as in PhenomPenh and Siem Reap. Every Hagar Design product is specially crafted to enrich personal lifestyle, as well as the lives of its skilled artisans. Each purchase further empowers Cambodian women and children in their quest for a meaningful future.
Hagar Design provides employment to women and men who have gone through Hagar’s prevention and rehabilitation programs.
Soya Milk - From small beginnings producing 300 litres a day of fresh soya milk and tofu, Hagar Soya Company Limited has grown into a fully commercialised, innovative business. With help from the International Finance Corporation’s Mekong Private Sector Development Facility (MPDF), Hagar Soya is leading the way in new technology and large-scale production in Cambodia’s beverage industry. Founded in 1998, Hagar Soya provides jobs for women and men graduating from Hagar’s prevention and rehabilitation programs.
We had one small corner of their massive new factory to work in, and work we did! We had to convert what was once a workshop and storeroom into a baby day care facility for the kids of women who have been taken out of abusive situations and rescued from forced sex trade.
We smashed new windows and doors through, we cleaned, removed a huge roof section, we scrubbed, concrete rendered, cleaned some more and painted and then created some stunning murals to create a real 'playful' feel.
We also visited the Hagar catering training centre for breakfast one morning as well as a visit to the current facility that much of the work will be moving from to the new factory. It was moving seeing the kids for whom we had been preparing a new shelter.
By providing a meal catering service, Hagar Catering improves the nutrition and health of hotel staff and garment factory workers while creating employment opportunities for disadvantaged Cambodians.
The business supplies meals to staff at the five star hotels Raffles Le Royal and Intercontinental, and the New Islands garment factory.
Hagar Catering has also launched a facility management service for industrial cleaning and laundry management.
Some of our group also visited Hagar's ministry to disabled children, a very moving encounter.
The other moving encounter some of our group had was a dinner with some of the young girls rescued from the sex slave industry. These girls are on a great healing journey and saying more here or including photos of them is not honourable or in some cases, still not safe for them as there are still legal issues going on.
2. The second main place we visited was the ministry of a local indigenous church called The Followers of Jesus Church. Pastor Ming welcomed us to his church on the Sunday for worship and I was invited to preach.
Later in the week he took us to a local rubbish tip in which his church has started a school. At first he was paying the families 50cents a day to have their kids not pick rubbish but attend school, after a while the families saw the value and are now sending their kids with not payment required. They are building a new school alongside their current, very small facilities. This is a small but wonderful work being done by some very committed believers. We walked into visit some locals in their slum type dwellings. It was moving to see how they live there.
Ming pointed up to a woman squatting in her doorway with obvious acid burns to her face. (We are told this was from an abusive relationship), Ming said to me, "That lady has recently gave her life to Christ". I looked at her and she smiled at me and waved, and as I did I realised this was my sister in Christ, I sensed this odd and powerful bond with her as she smiled and looked into my eyes. I had to look away as tears poured down my cheeks.
Ming also has an orphanage out in the country we were unable to see this time.
3. We visited an orphanage called Soovanahpoom. This is overseen by a couple of Australians call John and Tess Castledine from SA it is connected to a group called Community Care. The orphanage houses about 60 - 70 kids. They are building a big new building just around the corner as the Mekong river is washing away at the foundations of the current building, it is slipping into the river. In fact you are on an angle as you sit in the main meeting room.
We spent 3 days on this island on the Mekong. We slept under mossie nets on the floor, right where all the kids were. We did some labour on the new building sight, we help herd goats, we taught in the school, we played games and distributed toys and clothes we had brought with us.
The clothes were all brand new clothes donated by Pumpkin Patch children's clothing chain. The kids looks so proud of themselves when they came out on Sunday morning dressed in their new "Sunday Best". (Special thanks to Tracy, my Sister for organising such a gift for us)
After a long 3 days on the island, and it was LONG (The day starts at 5am each day, and as we were not used to dogs, cats, rats and whatever the other noises were we slept VERY lightly!) we walked down the mud track to the main town in silence, deeply moved by the farewell songs and gifts from the kids in the orphanage, deeply challenged by what I saw as a model of mission and ministry that I was not familiar with, yet needing to acknowledge that these kids were now alive and eating because if this work.
We caught the bus 5 hours north to finish our trip with a fascinating day wandering around the amazing World Heritage site of Angkor Wat.
Well, I took 388 photos, mostly of the temples at Angkor Wat (Siam Reap) which happens to be one of the owrlds fastest growing tourist attractions at the moment!
There are a few snaps I have thrown together in a slide show here.
We were very impressed with the work of Hagar, we worked in a factory recently donated by Nestle - check out this press release (No doubt this donation will appease some of the criticism aimed at them for their powdered milk to breast feeding mothers 'issues' in Africa if you followed any of that on 60 Minutes and elsewhere -
Nestle Gives Factory to Soya Milk Producing NGO
Friday, June 8, 2007
By Suzy Khimm
The Cambodian Daily
Swiss food giant Nestle donated its vacated factory building in Phnom Penh to the NGO Hagar International, which will use the premises to expand the production of enriched soy milk by its commercial venture, the NGO’s chief executive officer said Wednesday.
The donated factory will help Hagar Soya improve its production of fortified soya milk, said Talmage Payne, chief executive officer of Hagar International.
“It’s much better facility, built to handle milk and will help soy drink manufacturing and pasteurization” Payne said.
The plant, which is located on National Route 5 near the Japanese bridge, was turned over to the NGO in June 1, he added. The factory donation expands upon the existing partnership between Hagar International and Nestle, which has provided pro-bono training and consulting services to Hagar Soya, Payne added.
Nestle stopped its manufacturing operations in Cambodia several years ago, Payne said but he declined to comment on the reason for the factory’s closure.
Bretton Sciaroni, head of the International Business Club, said that Nestle was forced to shut the plant as its locally made milk products could not compete in price with similar smuggled goods widely available in Cambodia.
Francois-Xavier Perroud, a communications officer for Nestle in Vietnam, said by phone Thursday that he was not authorized to comment on the Nestle’s production stoppage in Cambodia
Hagar Soya’s products, which include highly fortified soya milk and low – sugar soya milk, are distributed by NGO’s to HIV- AIDS patients and are also available for commercial sale in shops, said Payne, who added that annual sales totaled $400,000 last year.
Yes, just found a free internet connection at the Singapore airport...Been a great couple of weeks in Cambodia, but I can't wait to be getting home tonight. Took over 300 photos so I guess you will be getting a blog full of snap shots. Cambo is an amazing place, a place of contrasts...such a cliche but it is...Hannah Newnham helped me spell that big word...cliche, she is standing next to me checking on her emails! The guy over on the Island orphanage where we stayed for a few days was a Christian Outreach Centre guy from SA, he and his wife started this work 9 years ago. Some good stuff going on there, kids rescued from bad situations, they are like like the grandparents to the kids, I had not seen this type of thing before. We did some seriously heavy wall smashing in the old Nestle factory that has been fully donated to the Hagar ministry. They handed over everything including all the milk production stuff, good for Hagar as they produce Soy milk. The whole donation was over 2 million dollars - very nice! Plane leaving, gotta run.
Well in a few hours I leave with 5 others for 2 weeks in Cambodia. We will be working with the Hagar project in converting a factory into offices and accomodatin for kids, we will be playing games with some other kids at an orphanage and we will be having a look at Siam Reap/Angkor Wat temples/tourist area, should be fun, stay tuned...better go pack! I am taking heaps and heaps of kids clothes donated from a leading clothing store here in Perth, amazing, all new!
Some time ago I commented on a book called Death By Suburb. I found this book last week in Adelaide and couldn't resist, despite the ridiculous $45 price tag! I must confess it was worth every dollar spent. A great read. And one that I feel connected deeply to something of the heart beat of many...(Some?) in our group here in Joondalup.
The premise behind this book is a captivating one. Is life in the suburbs detrimental to a living faith? Goetz claims it can be but, with the intentional approach he outlines in this book, it does not have to be. We understand what he means: superficiality and sterility are the suburbia stereotype. In the pleasant bedroom communities of America, it can seem as if people are more concerned with tidy flowerbeds than they are the things that nurture the soul.
"No Guarantees" is about my life...and I guess yours in some ways, about spirituality, relationships and being. There are not too many things that are 100% guaranteed in this life. This blog is one of them!
"No Guarantees" is about my life...and I guess yours in some ways, about spirituality, relationships and being. There are not too many things that are 100% guaranteed in this life. This blog is one of them!
About Me
Scott Vawser
I make things in my shed from wood and dangerous chemicals, I drink coffee with people for a living, I read, I walk, I paddle, I spend time discovering stuff about a person called Jesus and I live with and love Mikaela, Amy and Sophie my three girls and Christine my amazing wife...and Max my Border Collie.
